c o n v e r g e n c e

Wednesday, February 21, 2007

Personal Salvation?

From: Convergence Teaching by CJ on Feb 8 2007

Extra ecclesiam nulla salus (Outside the church there is no salvation)

What is the church’s relationship to salvation?

Presented by Cyprian, argued by Origen, Augustine, Aquinas and others was adopted by the Catholic church as a measure of exclusivity. It has been used in history to keep people out, and to give the church the authority to determine who was "in."

As Christians, our work is to participate in our own salvation, the salvation of our community, and God’s ultimate plan for the salvation of our world. So let's talk about salvation.

PERSONAL SALVATION (a myth?)

Are you are saved? How do you know?

Most of us would point back to a time when we prayed a short sinner’s prayer, and recieved our personal salvation. Who can show me the sinner’s prayer in the Bible? Where did the sinner’s prayer come from? It's actually a condensed version of the basic salvation theology called The Romans road. Eventually, instead of declaring a creed orsomething, we just adapted several scriptures into a prayer and -- Presto! You're saved. Like magic.

So again, how do you know you are saved? Ok, now we can get to the meat - I am saved because I am a disciple of Jesus.

Who is a disciple of Jesus is in the Bible?

First, Jesus talked a lot about the Kingdom. Somehow, those who are his disciples are invostors and representatives of the Kingdom of God (or Kingdom of Heaven in Matthew). BEING IN THE KINGDOM is Both an event of entering, and a process of participation. It's not just the moment of first prayer, it's the process of ongoing participation. We will argue here that if you are missing the latter, you are likely not saved. No participation - no salvation.

Many have entered but never participated. Its like being drunk at an AA meeting. What’s the point of being in an environment of freedom if you bring your bondage with you? You entered, sure, but if you don’t participate, then what good is it to say you go to AA meetings?

The Kingdom is focused on: Ethics (Matt 5-7); Mission (Matt 10); Commitment (Matt 13); Community (Matt 18); and Stewardship (Matt 24-25). There are all about doing stuff, not just believing stuff. And all of this stuff requires community. You can't excersize ethics, stewardship, or commitment in isolation.

Our personal salvation model is a modern concept, introduced at the same time as secularism. Personal salvation is not entirely Biblically sound. Salvation by participating in a community of the saved, and in relationship with Jesus, is the Biblical model.

What does it mean to be in relationship with Jesus? Let’s ask him? John 14:15; John 14:21; John 14:23-24 Lovers are doers! But is this Jesus’ example? 1 John 4:8-12; Rom 5:8; John 15:9-13. What are the elements of love in community here? Can those things be excersized independent of community? nope.

The premodern monks and mystics seem at first glance to be the first “personal-salvationists” in the world. They seem to have isolated themselves outside of the community, but any amount of historical digging will reveal that they played a huge role in the wider community, they were not individualists. They were dialectically influenced, and everything they wrote about was in the context of community. They grew food together, and often provided medical and educational support for the community around them. You (plural) are a royal priesthood, 1 Peter.

I cannot exhibit discipleship, experience love, or even work out repentance independently. I cannot exibit the fruits of the Spirit individually, so what value then is individual / personal salvation?

Remember the Great commission (in Matt 28)? Can this be done outside of community?

I'll add to that The Great Responsibility in Luke 4:18ff (cf. Isaiah 61), this is what Jesus saw as the responsibilities tied to the great commission. Can this be done outside of community?

There seems no Biblical sense in which any isolated individual can be saved outside of community.

But what about what Paul said? The closest argument to individual salvation there is in the New Testament is the case of Abraham. Paul says that he was saved by faith, and James says that he was saved by obedience. I believe they were right.

Paul says that Abraham was declared righteous by faith (Gal 3:6-9), and seems to preach a faith based salvation. But curiously in 1 Cor 3:11-15, it is our works which will be tested. And he seems to entirely contradict himself in Romans 3:31 “Do we then nullify the law through faith? Of course not! On the contrary, we establish the law.” So what's the deal, is Paul lying? Confused?

James clarifies by saying that it was Abraham’s obedience that made him righteous (James 2:14-26). Both authors refer to the exact same text in Leviticus when they make these seemingly opposing claims about Abraham.

So which is it, salvation through faith or works? Neither / both.

Faith AND works is salvation

Let's look at it a different way. Can fruit / works be exercised all by yourself (Galatians 5)?

Can I be loving, patient, kind, etc, outside of relationship with othr people? nope. I can't even excersize the fruit of the Spirit in isloation, so I too am not saved independently of my relationship to others. Again, there seems to be no such thing as individual salvation. My faith can only produce actions, the fruit of the spirit, and the beatitudes, in community. In other words, MY personal faith is useless, it is not even enough to be saved. Faith in Christ requires involvement in community. Not only that, but Jesus says that our love is not holistic until it is expressed for our enemies. That’s a communal gospel.

In fact, of all of the times in Paul’s writings when he refers to salvation or being saved, there is only 1 time when it is in an individualistic context (1 Tim 4:16). Look them up! There are a ton of references to salvation in Paul's writings, but they are instructions to groups, not to individuals.

As we saw a couple of weeks ago, you can neither know who you are nor invest in your own character outside of community. In light of the fact that you can't be saved outside of community, this makes a lot of sense.

Individual IN community is saved

ASIDE: There are times of isolation for the sake of relationship with God that are important in a believer’s life (desert experiences, the dark night of the soul, garden of Gethsemane) but those are properly and always: in response to calling; never out of rejection of the community; and without exception, involve a return to community.

The real question is, If we can prove Biblically the case for both Individual and Communal salvation, what Godly motive would there be to defend individual over and against communal salvation?

We've done this for a couple of hundred years because of the individualism in teh wider society. We the Church have made deep consessions to the world in the area of individualism to the point that we have allowed it to hijack the Biblical model of salvationin community.

Salvation is participation with Jesus in the community of the church, in bringing his Kingdom to bear in the world.

COMMUNAL SALVATION IN PRACTICE

Why do you come to Convergence? Let’s look at the Missional works (that is, faith that leads to action) of Convergence:

How many are involved in risky missional outreach or community service in the areas of social justice? Are we doing the Luke 4 stuff? If the Bible says that you must be involved in those things in order to be a Christian, what happens to your sinner’s prayer? How about the groups that we all laid out last week, how many of us now see them as missional works.

Our corporate mission is to bring the gospel into our culture to form faith communities. So what kinds of communities are we involved in? Are we taking responsibility for spiritual growth and social justice in those communities?

Let’s have a look at two the two exit ramps of Convergence:

Because we are transient, we must have strategic exits from this group. Because salvation is only in community, at Convergence we intend for long-term community participation in these two things:

  1. The Peaceful Takeover of Broadway: Our mission to revitalize our inter-dependant lazy older brother, Broadway Church. How are we reaching out to Broadway? (Or if you go to another church, how are you reaching out there?) What is our long term intention for Broadway as a conglomerant of churches? MEMBERSHIP at Broadway is a necessary part of the strategy if you want influence in a modern church. We need to learn the language of modern church just long enough to be influencial . We can rewrite that language later.
  2. Lifelong A-Proximate Communities: We must be active in working out our salvation in participation with others who are doing the same. By doing this, we can build relationships that will be with us forever, no matter where we live or what we are doing in 10 years from now. Location is helpful, but not necessary for relationship.

So extra ecclesiam nulla salus is what we’re still dealing with. And where the Catholic church interpreted it as their right to deny or grant salvation (exclusive), at Convergence we have an inclusive definition: Anyone who is participating in the global Church, by participating in obedience to Christ in community, is saved. Instead of being the keepers of salvation, demanding allegiance to the institution, and keeping those out of the church (and salvation) that we don’t want, Convergence reinterprets this phrase, not to identify who is out, but to give back to Jesus the right to decide who is truly in. What does this mean for those who call themselves Christians but are not actively participating in community? Can that faith truly save them?

What does this mean for those we lead to Christ? For those who have walked away from communities of which we are a part?

So here's what we've come up with:

1. Faith and works are intrinsically tied. Faith without works is dead, works without faith are as filthy rags.

2. Individual salvation and communal salvation are tied. You can’t be saved in isolation, as the fruit of the spirit and acts of obedience require community. Likewise, you can’t just be saved in community with no individual conviction of Christ’s Lordship.

3. Jesus is both Savior AND Lord. For a long time the individualistic church has sold him as savior THEN lord. You can’t have half of Jesus. He is called Savior 16 times in the New Testament, he is called Lord 420 times. Obedience is not optional.

4. Christianity has not been tried and found wanting; it has been found difficult and left untried. – GK Chesterton.


9 Comments:

  • so k say you go on a missions trip in the summer then for the rest of the year untill next summers missions trip you decide its your choice to not follow Christ.. God gaves us all free will to make our own choices... no reading, praying, fellowshiping with believers... no nothing to do with Christ but then expect to go again next summer to the missions trip? is that being active in the kingdom? or is that "cherry picking" the kingdom? isnt that like "Im a christian cause i go to church on easter and christmas??" kinda thing? too a lesser extent since im one not to talk about another individual with out saying stuff about me so k so i help out last year at the kids camp after the camp i pretty much faded away... reason cause I was not agreeing with the no sunday night service i decided to boycott Boardway pretty much...( and yes tiredness from work was another reason) but main was the no sunday nights so instead of continueing on with the kids the way i should have! whatever my role would of be, bus,seting up and cleaning up afterwards, or tell a kid not to smash a chair over another kids head... or telling a kid swinging a big stick not to torch a cousalor!(sorry you had to be there at the camp last year to get that) even tho I have realise what I did and have ask for forgives of my selffish ways(boycotting the church because of no sunday nights) because i was not active in the kingdom should i be allowed back this year??.. so since i did sin in my selfish ways dose God let sin, once i let it in my life run its course and make me learn from it.. how do i say it right "past mistakes can have a rippling affect on the future?"
    my login wont work so this is Niko Fetatanko write my weekly book here cause it 4am working night dose this too you! love you all and i think i start to love Pauls writings although he seem to condridict him self a lot! i think i love him! in a pultoxnic(i think that the right word) way only of course!

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 1:05 AM  

  • Nik,
    Grace is always free, grace is never cheap. God will let you back in, but you may find that those you used to be in community with won't trust you the same way. You really should get involved in community, and humble yourself a bit in the process. Sunday night services are not in the bible. They are as optional as eating muffins. I hope we see you again soon.
    -cj

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 8:45 AM  

  • but I like muffins...

    (real comment to come when I'm not so tired).

    By Blogger Jared, at 1:50 AM  

  • Christ never meant for anyone to be a Christian! Jesus took another angle on what we were to become - we are to be a follower, and disciple. Guess what - along the journey - followrs will screw up and fade away and come back. God has much grace - and he also wants us to become true followers of him - the kind that touches leppers and hangs out with the realy bad people - those who drink beer and have tattoo's ;). Nik - come back - and start to become a disciple a follower of Jesus. All the disciples screwed up - just like you - and yet before Jesus left for heaven - he had breakfast with Peter by a fire (check out that story) why so cool? - because Peter denied Jesus by the fire - by the ashes - and that is where Jesus asked him - "do you love me"
    Nik - Jesus is crazy in love with you - when you catch that, when you take that personally - it is muchharder to walk away from him - and that is different than church, or sunday nights - and Nik - do something productive with your sunday nights - grab another or a few YA's - and walk down Waistings and Pain - and pray, or get into a Jesus study.
    Come back already - don't beat yourself with the stick - when God has taken your sin and hid them behind his back through Christ - get out there and start to follow again!
    See you soon Nik

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 11:20 AM  

  • ok so heres my question....well questions actually. I currently have a job where I usually have to work on Sundays, which means I don't get to church a lot. I do have relationships with great "christian" friends however and we have conversations about God and encourage each other. But what does community actually mean? Church itself is a community right? A body of believers. But because of my current work status (which is going to change when I come back to CA) I can't always be involved in a church community. Does this mean I'm not saved? I still love God and try to follow Him and pray and spend time with God but because I'm not actually going to church regularily does that mean I'm not saved? I don't think that's the case. Man looks at the outward but God looks at the heart right? And if my heart is in the right place isn't that the key?
    I don't prescribe to the "once saved, always saved" notion. But doesn't Jesus tell us that if we confess with our mouth and believe in our hearts that He is Lord then we shall be saved? I tell people I believe in God, I believe Jesus is my Lord and Saviour and I try to live my life in obedience to God. Isn't that all I can do?
    Questions, questions

    ~ Jody

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 3:00 AM  

  • Jody,

    I think your confusion here is not with the definition of "saved" but the definition of "church". In a modern context (typically the philosophy of our parents) church was separated from the rest of life, given a special space and time. However we no longer subscribe to that belief. Church as we understand it refers to the Kingdom, which is Christ's movement on earth, and it is not restrained by schedule or place. However you choose to participate in the Kingdom is up to you, as long as you follow the example of Christ. I don't remember him saying anything about Sunday Christianity. So, I wouldn't worry too much about skipping out on the morning service (I do every week). The important part is that you are surrounded by people who recognize the fruit in your life. In actuality, they don't even have to be Christians!! Point being, don't lock yourself in a room of prayer and think you're doing the will of Christ.

    Jared

    By Blogger Jared, at 3:17 AM  

  • Jody- questions are good.. that's one way we seek knowledge more... questions are a way to keep this blog rollin'

    CJ- about
    sunday nights is im so use to it for 8 of the 9 years it was sunday mornings once and awhile and every sunday night... cause i loved the intimate corporate worship so im supose to change that.... yikes! so i guess i can kinda sadly say that part became "religous" to me in away
    i guess i didnt wanna get out of "my comfort zone"

    The no name face(lifehouse rules) anonymous person- Hummble myself a bit??? i think i need a whole dump truck of humility in me.. can you imagein Jesus standing in front of someone saying open the hatched.. and saying ... one bucket full, two bucketts full, depending on how many buckets he has to put in Do you think he would sweat? or hes so well fit he wouldnt break a sweat?

    Jared- what kind of muffins do you like? fruit expolsion from timys are the bomb! but only in frezzing tempatures of minus 15 which have been siting in a dumpster for a bit haha

    Fiko Netatanko

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 5:35 AM  

  • I am also a big fruit explosion muffin fan, though I've switched to their breakfast sadwiches recently. boojah!

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 1:19 PM  

  • oh man Timmys! How I miss Timbits. So good on the lips, very BAD on the hips.....aaah well. Just another thing I will have to look forward to in 4 months time, waahooo!!!

    Jared - I totally get what you are saying about "church" not being a building, I guess what I find hard is knowing if I am being "active in the kingdom" just in my every day life. I hope I show Jesus to my workmates and others around me, I guess for me personally I do like to be actually involved in something church orientated, be it leading a home group or helping with the youth group, or the music team. i like to be involved in a church, that way I feel that I am part of the church community. So I guess when I can't really be a part of that community I find it hard and I don't know how good a christian I am being. I guess that is the kind of mentality that has been ingrained in so many christians over the years. I do know church is not a building...it's just hard sometimes to get my head around it all and to "show God" through my everyday life.

    BTW its great to see this blog being more constantly updated. yay!

    ~ JOdy

    By Blogger Jody H, at 3:26 AM  

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